Re: CIA old/new?

From: groepaz_at_gmx.net
Date: Mon, 04 Jan 2021 18:24:04 +0100
Message-ID: <28268163.VsfAaAtOVx_at_rakete>
Am Montag, 4. Januar 2021, 18:12:50 CET schrieb Segher Boessenkool:
> On Mon, Jan 04, 2021 at 05:43:13PM +0100, groepaz_at_gmx.net wrote:
> > Am Montag, 4. Januar 2021, 17:19:04 CET schrieb Segher Boessenkool:
> > > On Sun, Jan 03, 2021 at 09:45:39PM +0100, groepaz_at_gmx.net wrote:
> > > > Not every detail in the design is clocked, some delays just happen
> > > > because
> > > > of gate propagation delays - and when the process changes, those
> > > > delays
> > > > may change as well.
> > >
> > > Yup, exactly.
> > >
> > > > The well known "grey dot" the new VICII produces are related
> > > > to exactly the same thing.
> > >
> > > But this isn't true at all.  You get the grey dot if *external* timing
> > > is off!  The difference isn't between VIC-II versions, the difference is
> > > between boards (and what PLA or PLA replacement is used on that).
> >
> > ehrm, no. what you mean is the "sparkle bug" that appeared on very early
> > boards, that is a totally different thing.
> >
> > the "grey dot" only shows on "new" VICII when any color register is being
> > written, and is clearly related to internal timing. (the color coming from
> > the pixel pipeline is not valid yet, and the VICII produces "0x0f" color
> > for a fraction of a pixel).
>
> No, this is exactly what I am talking about.
>
> You get it because an internal bus still holds the precharged value
> (which causes the light grey: all ones).  On older systems this did not
> happen.  It can be "fixed" by adding a small cap to the #CS line.
>
> http://segher.wiibrew.org/c64/plots/vic.html
>
> You are right that this is Yet Another example of race conditions.  But
> this one is *not* exposed by the new chip, by new external circuitry
> instead :-)

how would that cause glitches only with the color registers?


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Received on 2021-01-04 19:00:38

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