Re: CIA old/new?

From: Segher Boessenkool <segher_at_kernel.crashing.org>
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2021 11:12:50 -0600
Message-ID: <20210104171250.GD30983_at_gate.crashing.org>
On Mon, Jan 04, 2021 at 05:43:13PM +0100, groepaz_at_gmx.net wrote:
> Am Montag, 4. Januar 2021, 17:19:04 CET schrieb Segher Boessenkool:
> > On Sun, Jan 03, 2021 at 09:45:39PM +0100, groepaz_at_gmx.net wrote:
> > > Not every detail in the design is clocked, some delays just happen because
> > > of gate propagation delays - and when the process changes, those delays
> > > may change as well.
> >
> > Yup, exactly.
> >
> > > The well known "grey dot" the new VICII produces are related
> > > to exactly the same thing.
> >
> > But this isn't true at all.  You get the grey dot if *external* timing
> > is off!  The difference isn't between VIC-II versions, the difference is
> > between boards (and what PLA or PLA replacement is used on that).
> 
> ehrm, no. what you mean is the "sparkle bug" that appeared on very early
> boards, that is a totally different thing.
> 
> the "grey dot" only shows on "new" VICII when any color register is being
> written, and is clearly related to internal timing. (the color coming from the
> pixel pipeline is not valid yet, and the VICII produces "0x0f" color for a
> fraction of a pixel).

No, this is exactly what I am talking about.

You get it because an internal bus still holds the precharged value
(which causes the light grey: all ones).  On older systems this did not
happen.  It can be "fixed" by adding a small cap to the #CS line.

http://segher.wiibrew.org/c64/plots/vic.html

You are right that this is Yet Another example of race conditions.  But
this one is *not* exposed by the new chip, by new external circuitry
instead :-)


Segher
Received on 2021-01-04 19:00:02

Archive generated by hypermail 2.3.0.