Re: Hardware-based vs software-based emulation

From: HÁRSFALVI Levente <>
Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2017 13:14:14 +0100
Message-ID: <>
On 2017-02-18 12:52, wrote:
> On Saturday 18 February 2017, 12:48:15 Gerrit Heitsch
> <> wrote:
>> On 02/18/2017 12:22 PM, wrote:
>>> On Saturday 18 February 2017, 12:15:01 Gerrit Heitsch
>>> <> wrote:
>>>> On 02/18/2017 12:08 PM, wrote:
>>>>> On Saturday 18 February 2017, 12:01:05 Gerrit Heitsch
>>>>> <> wrote:
>>>>>> On 02/18/2017 09:38 AM, wrote:
>>>>>>> On Saturday 18 February 2017, 08:24:26 smf <> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 17/02/2017 20:26, Gerrit Heitsch wrote:
>>>>>>>>> That can be fixed by using a static RAM instead of DRAMs.
>>>>>>>> It can be fixed by latching signals as well.
>>>>>>>> My point is that a 100% VIC II in an FPGA would have the VSP problem,
>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>> it's not 100%. AFAIK vice doesn't have the VSP problem either.
>>>>>>> actually x64sc can emulate it :) (its optional, "VSP Bug Emulation" in
>>>>>>> VICII settings)
>>>>>>> and no, the problem can _not_ be fixed (only) by using SRAM - that was
>>>>>>> tried and proven wrong long ago. its an urban myth that doesn't want
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> die :)
>>>>>> Well, the VSP-Problem happens because DRAMs use destructive readout,
>>>>>> meaning even a read cycle has to write the data back to the cells. This
>>>>>> happens inside the DRAM once /RAS goes high. This is not the case with
>>>>>> SRAM, a read cycle will just read the contens of a cell without
>>>>>> destroying them. So when you have a problem with address lines changing
>>>>>> while /RAS goes down and your latch latches the wrong address, you
>>>>>> might
>>>>>> read the wrong data, but you CANNOT destroy the RAM contents this way
>>>>>> as
>>>>>> you can with DRAM when you confuse the row decoder.
>>>>>> I have done a SRAM replacement for the C64 using a 128KB SRAM, a
>>>>>> 74HCT573 and a 74HCT32 and so far no one was able to detect the VSP bug
>>>>>> when using it.
>>>>> as said, others have done it too and found that the VSP bug still exists
>>>>> -
>>>>> to remove it for certain you must add an additional circuit that
>>>>> prevents
>>>>> those writes to wrong addresses from happening. (but then, with such
>>>>> circuit, you dont need sram)
>>>> Again, there are NO writes, VIC only does read cycles, its R/_W line is
>>>> input only and you cannot destroy data in an SRAM with a read cycle.
>>>> VSP destroys data due to the way DRAM works.
>>>> Got a link to where someone claims to use an SRAM and still have VSP
>>>> problems?
>>> zero-x tried it iirc, you can find him on ircnet #c-64.
>> Doesn't really help me, a link that describes the test and the circuit
>> used would be much more helpful. When I did my experiments with SRAM to
>> replace the DRAM in a C64 it was never really stable until I added the
>> OR gate to the circuit. Since then it's running perfectly.
> you'll have to ask him, i dont think he wrote it down


Doesn't discuss whether a sram could be a fix though. Yet it (as it's 
also referencing Zer0-X's work) might be a good place to start.


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Received on 2017-02-18 13:00:02

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